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the girl with violets in her lap [userpic]

September 10th, 2005 (10:54 pm)

Why is rape funny when it happens to men?

λ and I went to see The Wedding Crashers tonight.Collapse )

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Posted by: littleminx (littleminx)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 05:23 am (UTC)
Here from metaquotes
gas prices

Hi, here from metaquotes

Thank you for this review. i'm haven't seen this movie, and whatever little intention i did have has been squashed. Rape isn't funny, ever. I don't believe that you came across as humourless or crazy-raging. I'm just as offended as you are. I'm also tired of gay people being portrayed as either paedophiles and/or rapists.

Cheers, and i hope more people see this!

Posted by: littleminx (littleminx)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 05:25 am (UTC)
Link, please?
do you know what freedom means

OOps, me again. May i please link to this in my journal?

Posted by: london_lights (london_lights)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 12:31 pm (UTC)
Re: Link, please?

brilliant icon

Posted by: littleminx (littleminx)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 08:37 pm (UTC)
Re: Link, please?

Posted by: the girl with violets in her lap (slammerkinbabe)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 03:29 pm (UTC)
Re: Link, please?

Posted by: littleminx (littleminx)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 08:37 pm (UTC)
Re: Link, please?

Posted by: Rebecca (theniwokesoftly)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 07:13 pm (UTC)
Re: Link, please?

Posted by: MantaRay (mantaraggio)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 05:28 am (UTC)
I'm just going to go sit in the corner by myself now...

Wow. The cheese stands alone. And Sing aimed her nasty icon at me. Sigh.

I don't think anyone laughed because rape is funny, and I don't think that the majority (I have to say 'majority' and not 'all,' because apparently there are some sociopaths in this world who think that rape on OZ was funny, which absolutely disgusts me, but moving on...) of people laughed because "hah hah, Vince Vaughn (and men) can't get raped." I think people laughed because it was played for laughs. It's a lame defense, I know, but I'm bad at this.

The big difference between you and I: I think that anything can be a subject for comedy, and you believe that certain subjects should be avoided. With a movie like War of the Roses, a case could be made that it inappropriately played domestic violence, sexual assault, child neglect, and murder for laughs - but it was meant to be a black comedy, that was the context. Context is what separates the limbs being chopped off in Monty Python skits (Hee!) from the limbs being chopped off in "Glory" (still traumatized). Many of the jokes in Wedding Crashers were in bad taste (like the gay brother), but IMHO, they weren't offensive or damaging to society.

Posted by: kinky funk (dirtynumbangel)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 06:01 am (UTC)
Re: I'm just going to go sit in the corner by myself now...

Hear, hear. Finally someone with a little balance.

Yes, rape is wrong. Yes, sexual assault is wrong. Nobody with a brain can possibly deny this, nor deny that sexual violence happens to people regardless of gender (though, to be fair, there are the expected trends to be found in the genders of those more frequently victimised and those who are more frequently the abusers).

But (and I haven't seen the movie) it seems as though it was, as pointed out above, played for laughs. Which is what changes the impact of this rape scene to be rather different than the rape scene in, say, Gia, or Relax, It's Just Sex (which is, frankly, a rape with political implications that will make your head spin).

Be offended, that's fine. But watch any comedy. Any comedy that hasn't been completely sanitised, that is. And you will very quickly see that it all deals with very offensive ideas as a matter of course. That's what people do. We laugh, in many cases, at what makes us uncomfortable. I understand it may hit close to home for you, but where, I ask, do we draw the line about what we are 'allowed' to use for comedy, and what we are not?

Posted by: Katranna (katranna)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 07:31 am (UTC)

Posted by: Kerry (kerrypolka)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 10:22 am (UTC)
see icon for example

Posted by: MantaRay (mantaraggio)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 12:22 pm (UTC)
Re: see icon for example

Posted by: Kerry (kerrypolka)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 08:54 pm (UTC)
Re: see icon for example

(Deleted comment)
Posted by: Kerry (kerrypolka)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 09:03 pm (UTC)
Re: see icon for example

(Deleted comment)
Posted by: Kerry (kerrypolka)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 11:40 pm (UTC)
Re: see icon for example

Posted by: Myk (politas)
Posted at: September 21st, 2005 01:40 pm (UTC)
Re: see icon for example

Posted by: Kerry (kerrypolka)
Posted at: September 21st, 2005 04:46 pm (UTC)
Re: see icon for example

Posted by: Myk (politas)
Posted at: September 21st, 2005 09:39 pm (UTC)
Re: see icon for example

Posted by: Kerry (kerrypolka)
Posted at: September 21st, 2005 10:03 pm (UTC)
Re: see icon for example

Posted by: Myk (politas)
Posted at: September 21st, 2005 10:44 pm (UTC)
Re: see icon for example

Posted by: Gluppit the prawling strangles, there (elettaria)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 10:51 pm (UTC)

Posted by: Kerry (kerrypolka)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 11:25 pm (UTC)

Posted by: Gluppit the prawling strangles, there (elettaria)
Posted at: September 12th, 2005 12:56 am (UTC)

Posted by: Kerry (kerrypolka)
Posted at: September 12th, 2005 02:01 am (UTC)

Posted by: Gluppit the prawling strangles, there (elettaria)
Posted at: September 12th, 2005 12:57 am (UTC)

Posted by: Kerry (kerrypolka)
Posted at: September 12th, 2005 02:15 am (UTC)

Posted by: MantaRay (mantaraggio)
Posted at: September 12th, 2005 12:56 am (UTC)

(Deleted comment)
(Deleted comment)
Posted by: Kerry (kerrypolka)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 09:09 pm (UTC)

Posted by: MantaRay (mantaraggio)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 09:25 pm (UTC)

Posted by: Kerry (kerrypolka)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 11:43 pm (UTC)

Posted by: Wicked G (ravrhi)
Posted at: September 18th, 2005 06:03 pm (UTC)

Posted by: MantaRay (mantaraggio)
Posted at: September 18th, 2005 06:51 pm (UTC)

Posted by: Wicked G (ravrhi)
Posted at: September 18th, 2005 07:49 pm (UTC)

Posted by: The Ronin Esper (cmzero)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 06:41 pm (UTC)
Re: I'm just going to go sit in the corner by myself now...

Posted by: MantaRay (mantaraggio)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 07:12 pm (UTC)
Re: I'm just going to go sit in the corner by myself now...

Posted by: Wicked G (ravrhi)
Posted at: September 18th, 2005 06:08 pm (UTC)
Re: I'm just going to go sit in the corner by myself now...

Posted by: Fenrisulfr (fenrisulfr)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 05:28 am (UTC)
Darkened Fou-Lu

Arrived here via my equally-sickened boyfriend, simplypip.

I'm never seeing this movie. Rape is NEVER funny, no matter who instigates it or who is the victim of it. Too many people find role-reversal and stereotyping a valid form of comedy.

I have noticed amongst many of my peers that "rape" is actually something of a comedy word. Or at least, this is my experience while playing online videogames like MMORPGs and the like, where the player database is mostly male. If a particularly strong enemy comes up and annihilates the player character(s), this is refered to as "rape". Other way around, it's still "rape". And they laugh over this. It's trivialized so much, no one even stops and thinks "Oh yeah, rape is a sick, horrifying power play."

I even see it used amongst PLAYER CHARACTERS. And they're all guys, and they all giggle. When they do it around me, you know they get my shit. Between this and all the gay stereotyping I can't even keep up with anymore...

Unfortunately, I think the movie is a fine example of how low humor has gotten these days. *sighs*

Posted by: Fenrisulfr (fenrisulfr)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 05:33 am (UTC)

I realized in my anger I sounded a bit like I was trivializing a lot of male gamers. Sorry, didn't mean to generalize--but several people are like this and it's enough to cause me a lot of bother, especially if this isn't as isolated as I had hoped.

Posted by: Cypher Grey (jagwire)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 05:50 am (UTC)

Look, I'm really not trying to get my ass flamed here or anything, but this is my take on the movie.

These 2 guys have spent the last, what, 12 years or something crashing parties, lying to girls, getting them drunk, and fucking them, before disappearing without a trace. No remorse, nothing. It's a game to them. They think it's great that they can get their rocks off, and nobody can say or do anything about it. Hell, their mentor (fuck I hate Will Ferrell) picks up chicks at funerals and it's all a game.

Now, these 2 guys finally get stung - they get their comeuppance; twelve or so years of karma hits them all at once, and what is funny is that they are finally on the receiving end of it, and finding out what it feels like.

See, I'm a bloke, and I laughed my arse off at this film. Rachel McAdams with that dark, curly hair and those eyes and dimples and smile... I nearly melted off the chair. Even though I was aware of the scenes in the film that you spoke of, and even though I agree with the points you make (and am pleased to see such points being made by a woman), I still see the premise of the film in a slightly different light, which is why I made this comment.

Please don't be offended by what I have said, I did not intend this to be inflammatory in the slightest. Just offering a different viewpoint ;)

Peace.

Posted by: nerm. (bluepoet)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 06:23 am (UTC)
pro-choice

Wow.

Thanks for this post. Thanks for the information on this disgusting movie. Thanks for leaving midway through and complaining. Thanks for making really important points with what you've written here.

Posted by: Sadie (megalomaniageek)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 07:14 am (UTC)
Another who wandered over from Metaquotes...

Hmm, I'm both tempted to strongly agree and somewhat disagree.
1. Laughter. Most people's sense of humor has a dark corner where awful things, shown in a certain way/setting, are funny. Ripping a human being to shreds, when done in Johnny the Homicidal Maniac, is funny. Orphan killing in VG cats and 8-bit theater is funny. In most other settings? I'd find it horrifying.
But there are some things, that no matter what context, are never funny for me. Child and/or animal abuse and/or neglect is the big one for me. I wanted to write angry letters and stir up shit about SNL's "Cheapkids" sketch. It made me sick for days.
Lastly, sometimes a kind of laughter *is* a human response to something horrible, even if the person doesn't think it's funny. Sometimes I'll see outrageous things on TV and laugh as I'm screaming, "Oh my God! That's horrible!"
2. Men do get raped. It's awful, and it can be just as traumatizing and physically painful (if not moreso) as it is for women. And it's not funny.
There are reasons for the belief that men can't be raped, though. A(n average) man can rape a(n average) woman with no restraints and no weapons. Unless clothes are getting in the way, he can simply pin her, fuck her, and leave her.
Speaking of which, somebody mentioned the idea of karma finally letting these two guys know what it was like to be used as simple sex objects.

I didn't see the movie; I'm not going to see it. And I thought this was a good rant.

Posted by: the indie mary jane (theycallme_legs)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 07:47 am (UTC)
i raise my martini to you
martini

hey, here from metaquotes and refusing to read other comments here's what i have to say:
GOOD FOR YOU!
america is sliding downhill when all someone has to do is try and gets screams and cheers(so you think you can dance) when critically they suck. And we're supposed to accept everything as not serious and able to be turned into funny so we can laugh at it and ignore it and sit in denial about the massive cultural downward spiral known (by myself) as the American Virus.
it's vile and sick and i'm totally glad you left (especially as a redhead). I seriously hope you've read cunt by inga muscio and if you haven't, do. it's brilliant and there's a bit about rape in movies in there which backs you entirely. Thank you SO much for writing this. Now i can save an $8, an hour of viewing and 40 hours of anger espressed in unproductive ways.
write your letter. It's your opinion, you're allowed. and thank you for being a warning.

Posted by: ((Anonymous))
Posted at: September 14th, 2005 10:33 am (UTC)
Re: i raise my martini to you

Get over it. It's a comedy, it was hilariously funny. I hate people like you, Get over it and have a laugh and throw your bullshit political correctness out the window. Bloody Liberal Hippies.

I'd hate to see what you would think if you watched South Park.

Posted by: the girl with violets in her lap (slammerkinbabe)
Posted at: September 14th, 2005 01:06 pm (UTC)
Re: i raise my martini to you

Posted by: the indie mary jane (theycallme_legs)
Posted at: September 14th, 2005 05:26 pm (UTC)
Re: i raise my martini to you

Posted by: the girl with violets in her lap (slammerkinbabe)
Posted at: September 14th, 2005 05:50 pm (UTC)
Re: i raise my martini to you

Posted by: Victor Stillwater (i_am_stillwater)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 08:11 am (UTC)

Adding to memories. a very interesting read.

Posted by: cryogenia (cryogenia)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 09:13 am (UTC)

Here through a friend's link :) Thanks for giving me a great reason not to see this purile flick. I've been unimpressed from the commercials I've seen, and I'm getting rather tired of having everyone in the world shove this down my throat.

Posted by: Kai Kuroda (kaiya_chan)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 09:16 am (UTC)

I haven't seen this movie, and I wasn't planning on seeing this movie because it looked stupid, and I'm glad I didn't. I totally agree with you on this, and I'm so glad you stood up on this matter.

I'm adding this to my mems.

Posted by: gypsyamber (gypsyamber)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 09:28 am (UTC)
followed the link from <lj user="mordwen">
gypmiffd

Hi...Didn't have any desire to se The Wedding Crashers because it looked to be in the vein of trashy, vulgar laughs, but I did not expect it to stoop to such disgusting levels of non-taste. And I am shocked at the audience's reaction and like you, can not believe that nothing has bee written about it and no fuss has been made.
Your 'rant' is eloquent and moving...I'm linking to my lj for more people to read it.

Posted by: Parakleta (parakleta)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 09:45 am (UTC)

I remember in Year 12 English, we did a play called "Death and the Maiden" where a woman who was raped and tortured during a fascist regime recognises the voice of one of the men and captures him determined to return the atrocities dealt to her. To get even on the rape she tries to convince her husband to sodomise him, but he disagrees and this conflict between husband and wife eventually leads to the man being released.

In that class I commented that I believed it was possible for a woman to rape a man, and my English teacher (female) instantly shut me down saying that rape wasn't possible without the victim being penetrated. Similar views are so often expressed when dealing with domestic violence (as was the case with recent rallies at the university I attend), where the woman or children are always the victim, and the man always the perpetrator.

I'm glad you wrote what you did about the movie, I'm glad that some people take a stance on these things. I wasn't going to watch the movie, but I think I might now as I think it might be an interesting exposé on our culture. I'm currently studying to become a teacher myself, and I want to make sure my students are aware of these issues.

Posted by: night_light_ (night_light_)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 12:39 pm (UTC)

I have been an advice worker and I know someone who was sexually assualted by a lesbian doctor when she was 13. She has never married or got close to anyone and she still has nightmares and flashbacks.

No, rape and sexual assault are not funny, ever.

Posted by: Kerry (kerrypolka)
Posted at: September 12th, 2005 12:37 am (UTC)

Posted by: Gluppit the prawling strangles, there (elettaria)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 10:54 pm (UTC)

Posted by: etsba (etsba)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 10:09 am (UTC)

I followed this from gypsyamber's lj.

Thank you for writing this.

Very recently a younger man very close to me experienced a sexual assault.
Thankfully he has loads of love and support and has taken legal action but sadly too he is living in a society that thinks rape/sexual assault jokes are funny. Where he can't tell certain people in his life because they are more likely to repond with a giggle or an anal joke than a hug and kind words.
When men are supposed to be big and tough and cannot be victims.
He noticed this a few years ago when his then 15 yr old friend was getting sexually harassed a few years ago at work, an adult male we know joked about getting him a tube of lube.. oh ha. A 15 yr old repeated being pressured by two adult men who were his bosses and did anyone respond with sympathy?

Rape by women towards women is another invisible crime and one that I'm sad to say I have rarely heard a sensible empathic response.
I had to hear someone, a feminist, say "I rather get raped by a woman than a man". I've been accused of being anti-feminist for raising the issue when I was just about to bring up my personal experiences. Changed my mind about that quickly.

Sorry, I'm a bit all over the place over this.

So again I will say thanks for raising this issue.

Posted by: High Priestess of Me (marysiak)
Posted at: September 11th, 2005 10:12 am (UTC)
Lex - don't mess with

I had this same issue with the film Sorority Boys and by the sound of things it was nowhere near as bad. I certainly won't be seeing this one.

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