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the girl with violets in her lap [userpic]

September 10th, 2005 (10:54 pm)

Why is rape funny when it happens to men?

λ and I went to see The Wedding Crashers tonight.Collapse )

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Posted by: ((Anonymous))
Posted at: September 19th, 2005 03:29 pm (UTC)
Let's get it straight

So it's ok if karma can bite 2 guys after 12 years of womanizing, but it's not ok to suggest that a woman who walks the streets...alone...at night...in suggestive clothing...is asking for it? That seems just a trifle odd, no?
10% of reported rapes have men playing the victim.
There's no V-Day for guys.

Posted by: the girl with violets in her lap (slammerkinbabe)
Posted at: September 19th, 2005 03:49 pm (UTC)
Re: Let's get it straight

I'm very confused by this comment.

I think you're being sarcastic, and even if you're not - either way you are saying something extremely offensive to me.

Option 1. You're saying, sarcastically, that it's ridiculous that people feel it is okay for men to get bitten by "karma" in the form of rape, when they don't feel it's okay to make the perfectly defensible observation that women who walk around in skimpy clothes are asking for it.

If that is what you are saying I will ask you never to visit my journal again. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ASKING FOR RAPE. I refuse to bow down to the rules of a society, or any portion of a society, that suggests that if I do not adhere at all times to some arbitrary standard of "modest" dressing it is my fault if some asshole wants to fuck me against my will. Rape is the fault of the rapist. If you are going to suggest otherwise, do it on someone else's journal.

Option 2. You're saying it's okay for guys to get "bitten by karma" and not okay for women to be blamed for their own rapes. I would disagree with your point about karma, as I do not believe that rape is a form of karma. I would be less pissed at you, but please don't interpret that as approval.

I don't know what "men playing the victim" means - are you suggesting that in 10% of rapes men are pretending to have been raped? And I actually don't know that much about V-Day but inasmuch as it's a day for rape survivors to stand up and be heard and speak up against rape, I would certainly hope that men are as welcome as women, and if they aren't that's a problem. All I know is that your comment is confusing, and it seems to be advocating the view that rape victims ask for it, and if it IS advocating that viewpoint (like I said, I'm not sure) I will ask you very calmly and politely to fuck off.

Posted by: Underwear Ninja (chavvah)
Posted at: September 19th, 2005 08:53 pm (UTC)
Re: Let's get it straight

Posted by: The Fell Cat (fellcat)
Posted at: September 27th, 2005 11:57 pm (UTC)

You are entirely right to be angry. Anyone who thinks that rape − of men or of women − is funny, is sick in the head.

Posted by: tyciol (tyciol)
Posted at: October 1st, 2005 12:46 am (UTC)

I'm guessing it's not viewed as rape with men unless they're being penetrated or hurt or there's malicious intent or something... *shrugs*

Over and over again I hear rape isn't a sexual thing... no... it's a 'power' thing. Well, these were obviously sexual, and it sounds like the guy was more in shock or 'ewwwww' rather than traumatized by it, more like a dog humping your leg than what some women experience, or what happens in prison showers...

Did he actually come across as sad or was it one of those funny sads?

Posted by: the girl with violets in her lap (slammerkinbabe)
Posted at: October 1st, 2005 02:42 pm (UTC)

Well, rape is about power, yes, but the scenes in the movie were actually a good deal about power too. The girl was portrayed as dominating and controlling, and the guy as being disturbed in large part because she was so dominating. And Vince Vaughn played the scene in which he talks about the rape very straight; people laughed because it was a comedy and in context it apparently seemed reason for laughter to them, but he didn't play it up funny. He did use the word "traumatized", too. Twice, I think.

Anyway, rape may typically be characterized by an undercurrent of power struggle, but that's not to say that if a guy rapes a girl (or the other way around, but I might as well pick one set of gender signifiers) because he wants to fuck her rather than control her, it's any less rape. Rape = nonconsensual sex, regardless of the motivations.

Posted by: tyciol (tyciol)
Posted at: October 1st, 2005 06:53 pm (UTC)

Posted by: spvix (spvix)
Posted at: October 3rd, 2005 12:03 pm (UTC)
invite to vocate

have a project going which i began for personal reasons. i invite you to participate.
in re this posting though, i have several serious disagreements and complaints, none of which are about the sentiment or the film, but about the reasoning.
would like to discuss how you came to some of your rationales concerning some points you've made and would like to do so preferrably as part of the project.
http://blog.myspace.com./spvix
existing are:
several mp3 files which are most of the raw discussion materials.
several radio broadcasts concerning rape and the current conditions/attitudes/psychoses of victims and rape industy professionals.
quite interesting/horrifying.
please investigate and rsvp:
spvix@juno.com
thanks and be well,
don vance.
p.s.
i have a livejournal page also but i forget the url. search:spvix, i expect.

Posted by: Jo (__jo__)
Posted at: October 14th, 2005 09:14 am (UTC)

I never really thought about it until I read your post. (Via vaginapagina)

But you're right. I mean, to be totally honest, by the sounds of the movie, I probably would have laughed my ass off.

But thats changed now. I see it as it is, fuckin disgusting.

And you know what the strangest thing is? As a rape survivor myself, you'd think I'd have more of a clue wouldn't you?

I think maybe it is that stereotypical 'men cant be raped' subconscious thought pattern happening.

Posted by: ((Anonymous))
Posted at: October 17th, 2005 07:11 am (UTC)
whining

just quit your fucking whining and grow up we live i a highly offensive world u fucking lesbian bitch

Posted by: pegunicent (pegunicent)
Posted at: November 21st, 2005 11:23 pm (UTC)
Re: whining

Damn but I'm glad your anonymous. I'd hate to think I might know anyone like you.

Posted by: If I had my way, wars would be fought with robots (socktree)
Posted at: November 21st, 2005 10:03 pm (UTC)
hush

I applaud you for this entry. Male rape may not be as common...but it does happen and it is just as bad as female rape. (here via Metaquotes comment)

Posted by: Emerald Embers (emerald_embers)
Posted at: November 22nd, 2005 07:53 am (UTC)
*hugs*

No, seriously - *hugs*. Because this is one of those movies where a fair few people I know had said "ZOMGFUNNY", but if I'd seen it I'd've been majorly disturbed too. I don't know if anyone mentioned this in any of the other comments (I skimmed the main thread to check and couldn't see anything), but this sort of thing? Happened in 40 Days and 40 Nights too. Josh Hartnett's character, while doped up to the eyeballs and strapped down to a bed, has no idea what's going on and thinks he's having sex with the girl he's fallen in love with. Turns out it's his ex-girlfriend who's been trying to seduce him to make money off the bet on whether he can abstain from sex for said 40 Days and 40 Nights.

I remember my sis telling me about the movie, and as she told me that part you could see realisation dawning. It really, really, really gets my goat when people just don't spot - or worse still, do spot and *still* find it funny - when a guy is being raped. My best male friend went through that experience and it seriously pisses me off people treat it so light-heartedly.

So yes. Thank you, even though you've probably heard it about a million or so times before.

Posted by: the girl with violets in her lap (slammerkinbabe)
Posted at: November 22nd, 2005 02:22 pm (UTC)
Re: *hugs*

Someone did actually mention the 40 Days and 40 Nights thing, somewhere in the middle of the GIANT THREAD OF DOOM :), so I'm not surprised you found it hard to track down. There were actually a couple of comments regarding other movies that have treated male rape in similar way, which gave me an eerie sense that this attitude is more widespread than is acknowledged.

I hope your friend is doing all right these days and that he's found some support services to work through his experience as best he can. ::hugs:: to him and to you.

Posted by: Kaziret (bluetigereyes)
Posted at: November 23rd, 2005 10:09 am (UTC)
I read your entry just now.

I thought I'd say it was really cool. I had a similar experience today, when I was in the video rental store with friends. One of the people I was with was trying to convince people that the "Bum Fights" videos were worth watching, but they're horrible, and I said so. I'm not very good at standing up for myself, because I frequently have trouble figuring out what I think about complicated subjects. But this time, it was really something I believed in- paying a bunch of homeless people to attack one another on video is disgusting, it isn't funny just because these people don't have a place to live. But for some reason, a lot of people find them entertaining... it made me really ill.
It isn't right to take something that doesn't belong to you, especially when that thing is someone else's dignity and humanity. I wish more people had spines, and stood up for what they believed in. Reading what you've written today was encouraging- thank you.

Posted by: the girl with violets in her lap (slammerkinbabe)
Posted at: November 23rd, 2005 01:55 pm (UTC)
Re: I read your entry just now.

And I'm really glad, in turn, that you spoke up to someone about those videos. I'd heard of the concept before and I thought it was the most horrendous, dehumanizing thing I'd ever heard of. It's good to know that even in just one situation, someone stood up and said that, you know? And if standing up for yourself is hard for you (I know what you mean about getting confused and conflicted) that makes it all the more impressive and praiseworthy. Thanks.

Posted by: Mistress Legato (mistresslegato)
Posted at: November 23rd, 2005 07:19 pm (UTC)

My gawd, I can't even believe that such a piece of trash was released as humor.

Rape is never funny, and I'm shocked to see it portrayed in such a mainstream film! My god . . .

Posted by: ((Anonymous))
Posted at: January 30th, 2009 10:53 am (UTC)
Really?

I suppose Indiana Jones pulling out a pistol and shooting a guy in cold-blood was not funny?! Scenes like this are in every movie!
You make out that rape is the ultimate bad...sorry you need to get a handle on life and the daily travesties that occur not just in Hoolywood.

Posted by: the girl with violets in her lap (slammerkinbabe)
Posted at: January 30th, 2009 02:23 pm (UTC)
Re: Really?

Violence in the movies actually is a problem unto itself, but it isn't the same problem. (And are scenes when Indiana Jones shoots a guy in cold blood supposed to be "funny"? I thought "dramatic" was more the order of the day, although of course I only saw the movies as a kid...) The only thing I'm going to say to this particular bullshit comment is that if you'd ever had a loved one whose life had been destroyed by rape, you'd know better. Rape may not be "the ultimate bad", but sexual violence is, believe me, right up there (seriously, what do you think "the ultimate bad" is? Genocide? Which usually goes hand-in-hand with mass rapes anyway?) I'll thank you not to pooh-pooh sexual violence on my journal, you anonymous little twerp.

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